The GeniusVets Show - Dr. Vaughn Fish - Powerful insights from the owner of a 9 doctor practice

The GeniusVets Show features Dr. Vaughn Fish of Belton Veterinary Clinic with David Hall, GeniusVets Co-Founder. 

This insightful conversation will dive into the Trends, Threats, and Opportunities facing veterinary practice ownership today. 

This far-reaching discussion will cover:

• Consumers are tightening spending on wellness care due to economic conditions.
• The rise of relief veterinarians is increasing costs and reducing client relationships/loyalty.
• New vet school graduates have unrealistic salary expectations and inadequate skills.
• Good mentorship programs are critical.
• The current period presents big opportunities for independent practices to grow and acquire others as corporate acquirers face challenges.

Transcript

Welcome to the Genius Vets Show for veterinary practice owners and industry pros. At Genius Vets, it's our mission to help veterinary practices thrive, and this webinar and podcast supports that mission by giving a platform to the best and brightest minds in the veterinary industry where we identify challenges facing veterinary practices today, discussing ideas, insights, and solutions that practice owners need to know about. If you like today's show, that's something we'd love to know. Feel free to send an email to genius at genius vets dot com. And make sure to check out the wealth of resources available to veterinary practices at genius vets dot com slash pro. That's genius vets dot com slash pro.

Now without any further ado, let's dive into today's show.

Hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Genius Vets Show. I'm your host, David Hall, cofounder here at Genius Vets. And today, we're gonna be continuing this exploration of the trends, the threats, and the opportunities that are facing veterinary practice owners today.

And, you know, I have joining the show a fantastic practice owner, doctor Von Fish, co owner of a of a veterinary practice with nine doctors, soon to be ten in Belton, Texas, growing, doing a fantastic job. And I'm just so glad that he's able to take some time out of his busy schedule to meet with us here today and kind of dive into these topics. He had some really good responses in the study that we have published. If you haven't seen that study yet, find the download link here and check it out because there's great responses from everybody.

But, doctor Fish, thanks so much for joining us here on the Genius Pet Show.

Oh, thanks for having me, David. I'm passionate about veterinary medicine. I'm practice passionate about private practice, and happy to be here to discuss the trends in veterinary medicine today.

That's fantastic. You know, and somebody with, with all the success that you're that you're having, certainly has a lot of really good things to share with, other practice owners and your colleagues that are out there, hoping to achieve the same level of success. Can you tell us a little bit about before we kinda dive into the trends, threats, and opportunities, tell us a little bit about your, you know, your career trajectory up to this point and, you know, experience as a practice owner, you know, what you've gone through over the past few years.

Oh, absolutely.

So I'm actually a twenty seventeen grad from Washington State University.

Go Cougs.

I came to Belton, Texas right out of school. So this practice was actually my first practice I came to as a new graduate.

They were actually looking at selling to corporate, about a year after I came here, and I had this feeling that I needed to talk to one of the partners and let them know, like, I'm interested in I want to own a practice. Like, that's my goal. That's what I went to school for. And they were and I did. I I went to lunch with my now current business partner.

At the time, there was three partners here, and they were going to sell to a corporation because none of the associates really wanted to jump in and take the reins of the practice. It was it's been a big practice. I think there were seven or eight of us then. It's fluctuated from seven to twelve just depending on the demand.

And, I met with one of the the owners and just told her my goals and what I wanted to do. I was taking mine. I was a year out of school, and this was twenty eighteen. And she said, would you be interested in this practice? And I said, absolutely.

The opportunity to buy into or purchase a practice of this magnitude, they don't come around very often. Right? Many many associates wait ten years to be able to get into a practice and a partnership in this size.

One of the owners was looking to slow down and retire and work part time. And so we met and ended up I ended up buying thirty five percent of the practice at that point. A year later, my current business partner and I, doctor Katie Frosh, we ended up buying out our other partner, and now we're fifty fifty partners in this practice.

And that's kind of my journey. It's been great. It's been, an uphill crazy climb, if you will.

We're currently at nine doctors, but we are adding a tenth. We had ten last year. We had one lead for a different reason. We just added a tenth back. We normally run ten's kind of our sweet spot right now.

We started as a walk in only clinic, many years ago, and we've kinda transitioned that to a hybrid type clinic.

The pandemic kinda changed the way we practiced because we were literally having, like, four to six hour waits, and a lot of our clients were not keen to that, especially for wellness type stuff.

So we had to make a hybrid model. So, currently, our model is, we do two doctors that are on walk ins, so we do urgent and urgent care every day.

And then the one doctor sees large animal, and the other doctors, one doctor does surgery every day in dentistry, and then the rest of us see appointments based things. So, every day, we have anywhere from six to seven, usually eight doctors here, on a daily basis. So it's pretty big, pretty busy.

Every day can be a new day as veterinary medicine is, but this practice is very busy.

Yeah. Absolutely. It's booming. It's fantastic.

So thank you for for kind of sharing that. And, I'd love to to dive into to some of the comments that you had on the survey that we put out.

You know, we got some quotes in the study from you. And, so the first question in the survey that you had responded to was, you know, what are the what do you think the trends are that are currently affecting veterinary practice ownership this year? And you had said continued corporate buyouts and consumers tightening their spending habits, especially when it comes to wellness care. I also see so many doctors going to relief platforms versus working full time for a clinic. This will continue to increase the cost of our clients, pushing more people to pet insurance and in turn leading us down a road to what human medicine is experiencing with months and waiting to see anyone at extreme costs with insurance companies dictating medical decisions.

So, you've got what I would, what I would classify as like three very large rocks there in that, in that. So let's unpack those a little bit. First one, corporate buyouts, consumers tightening spending habits, especially when it comes to to while the scare actually, there's there's two in that. Corporate buyouts.

The corporate buyouts are slowing. They're still there. Right? But they they've slowed down pretty well.

Absolutely. I don't have people contacting me every day now. It's maybe once a month.

I'm sure that you're still getting contacted because you guys run a big practice. It's there's not a ton of of nine and ten doctor practices out there.

But, you know, a lot of that activity has really slowed down.

Consumers tightening their spending habits, especially when it comes to wellness care.

That, I think, is really interesting. Tell tell us more about your experience with that.

Yeah. I feel like, you know, we were really as I looked at my numbers, is we just I just met with I have a business consultant that I use, just because I don't have time to analyze all my numbers every single day, because I'm still a practicing veterinarian.

Anyways, he's got all kinds of spreadsheets and stuff, and the trends and what we've seen in our practice and as well as a lot of other practices that they see they they help.

Wellness is starting to trend downward, and I feel like just talking to people around town and people in general and veterinarians in general, I see that kind of trending down. It's not like dropped off a cliff yet, but as economies turn, right, like, the last couple years, we were booming, and now we're not booming. We can call it whatever we want, but we're not booming now. And the first thing they do, right, like, if my pet is sick, they're going to find the money to figure out how to make them well. If my pet needs a vaccine that they might be able to put off for two to three months, they can do that because that's not life or death. And so that's what I kind of feel like has kind of pushed this trend a little bit, and and it's not just me. I feel like there's quite a few practices that are down a little bit in their wellness.

You know, and it's hard to we're comparing numbers to twenty twenty, twenty twenty one where, you know, those were insane years. Like, literally, like, I and it's gonna take me three to four years to hit twenty twenty numbers again because it was just stupid insane how many people were coming to the clinic, and I couldn't hire doctors fast enough to keep up with the demand that year.

So we're comparing to those a little bit, but we see some slowing a little bit in that, and I think it has to do, you know, the economy. And we are a service based business. Like, call it what you want, but we are a service based business. And so those things like that are going to go down as the economy turns down, I feel like.

You know, I it's really interesting because I think it's, a lot of people look at that trend, well documented trend. Right?

And so much of that, you know, is getting placed on, like, what's the reason and the economy gets talked about a lot.

And certainly, everybody's felt the insane explosion of inflation. I mean, if the when our government decided to air drop money to everybody, yeah, they lit a wildfire fire of inflation. Right? And the repercussions of that, but inflation is it done, you know, pretty decent job bringing inflation down, you know, and and the soft landing stuff as you will, and the economies remain strong instead of going off a cliff. Okay. Okay.

But, you know, I think, honestly, one thing that almost nobody, you know, I don't hear many people talking about at least and I think it's a massive factor there. When everybody got sent home for COVID, in those years where we were everybody was still staying away from everybody long after they could come out of their house, they were still social distancing and they were whatever. I mean, veterinary care boomed because people's relationship with their animal became so much more important to their mental health and to their overall, like there's another creature here in this dwelling other than me, and I need to cling to it. And, wow, it seems like a funky thing is going on with it. Like, I want to take better care of you. You're now the most important thing or that how as important your importance to me has elevated, so they went running to the vet.

And I think just like, you know so vet veterinary boomed because that's where a lot of focus and attention was. Same time, like, for instance, travel and entertainment, like, like, was horrible industries to be in. Right? Because nobody could go do that stuff.

But once everything kind of it took a few years for it to really for a lot of the fear to fade for, I mean, we still see some people wearing masks and stuff. And I don't know what the deal is, but, like, you know, okay. So, there's a couple people here and there, but that's largely faded. You know, people got away from that.

They got back to life as normal. So they went back in their vacation again. They're getting out. They're doing entertainment.

And now their pets, I think, are not quite as central as they were during those years. And so their overall attention to it, you know, has has pulled back a little bit. And I think that that personally, I think that that was a big cause of the spike and a big reason for for the gentle kind of coming up. And so if that if that theory holds, that's why such an important part of what what we're doing and trying to do is just elevate awareness in the public that your your pet needs this stuff.

It doesn't talk to you. It it you know, it can't tell you, and it hides its pain. And the other offsetting thing is that the same, that same period of time, a huge distrust has grown in the country of expert opinions on things because everybody on the Internet has a mic the same microphone and they're shouting their opinions and nobody can tell the difference between an expert and non expert it seems. And the COVID and the, you know, vaccinating and whatever made people start questioning doctors' opinions and stuff.

And so, like, we're doing everything we can to try and educate people like veterinarians are brilliant. They're the nicest people in the world. They only care about animals. They're not trying to make money off of you.

They're saying that you got to get your, you know, advice from veterinarians. But I think that that's the thing to push, to push more people back into veterinary practices is just educating and raising that awareness. You know?

Yeah. And marketing plays gonna play a huge role in this. Right? Before twenty twenty, we marketed.

We had to market to people in twenty twenty. We didn't market because we didn't have to. Right? Like, we had to turn people away because we were so busy, and I agree with you a hundred percent.

People actually saw, like, oh, my pets actually, like, can't get up. It hurts.

People are like Right.

Before, they weren't noticing because they were running out the door, like, on their next thing, and they were now they're looking, and they're like, what's the matter, buddy? Yeah.

And they were gone. And my practice actually does quite a bit of small animal breeding reproduction.

And in twenty twenty, you know, we were seeing litter after litter after litter of puppies because they were literally those breeders were printing money, like, handing out puppies, like like, you wouldn't believe. Right? Like, you couldn't believe how many litters I would see come through this practice, because they were selling you know, French bulldogs were a hot commodity as you may know, and they were, you know, anywhere from five to fifteen thousand dollars a puppy for these bulldogs during the pandemic. And it's it's taken a hit now. Like, you can tell, like, okay. People are back to it's back to more twenty nineteen type stuffs, is what I'm seeing. So marketing is gonna play a huge role for us as well in that space, and that's is we gotta go back to being what we were before and realizing that it's different now, and that's okay.

Yeah. Yeah. This other thing that you touched on, totally different trend, but, this is a really big thing in the industry. I mean, just overall in society right now. You said, I also see many doctors going to relief platforms versus working full time for a clinic.

Yeah. I mean, that's huge. Right? There there is a lot of that. There's a lot of people looking for, like, I don't wanna get held down.

I wanna work when I want to work and I can make more money, you know, by by and get more, you know, of what I want to do with my get my time back and quality of life and, you know, be more in charge of that. And so many practice owners, especially the ones that have been around a long time, your your younger practice owner compared to the guys who've been around forever, and they're like, like, nobody wants to work anymore, like, you know, and that sort of thing. But there's there's some truth to that. Tell me more about, like, you know, what you're seeing from your perspective on that.

Yeah. So it's it's been interesting to see, and I totally and and this is part I don't fight these people. Right? Like, they're they're it's going to be there. It's a platform that works for them, and relief vets are going to be needed, and they're going to be utilized, and it's great for a lot of people, especially people that don't have families or people that even if they do have families, they can make a lot of money being a relief veterinarian. They can absolutely make two hundred, four hundred thousand dollars a year working hours that they want to work, and it's it's a great platform.

I'm all for, like, promoting small business, and that's essentially what these people are doing. Right? They're being their own small business, advocating for themselves, and it's hard as practice owners to compete with that type of thing. Right?

If I have to pay someone eighteen hundred dollars for a day shift and they're only producing enough to pay a nine hundred dollar day shift appointments. Right? You know, they're not producing enough. It's hard to make ends meet.

So I personally don't hire release work, but I I think, you know, it's here to stay. And I know I have a lot of friends that do it on a regular basis, and they they travel. They see the world. They work three, four months a year, then they're off for three to four months.

And that's a great lifestyle for some people, and I think it's, you know, I think there's an actual place for it. It's hard to compete as a business owner to pay those types of wages.

But in the end, you know, what what it what will it do if I have to pay someone double, then I have to charge someone double. In in the end, that's what it's gonna do. It's gonna drive the cost up. It's to some degree at some point.

It's it has to. There's no there's no way if around it. That's just business. Right?

Supply and money.

So what yeah. You know, I I wanna challenge you, though, on one thing. I actually don't think it's here to stay. I I think I think that the people who are doing it would love it to be here to stay. And I don't think it's I don't think it's gonna go away because they're gonna opt out of of this freedom and good money making.

I think that the reason why it's why it's become such a thing, why it's given them the opportunity because the it's it's because of the labor market. I mean, it's a seller's market right now. We all know that every practice is hiring and wants to hire. And, there's just not enough people out there that everybody can hire at once.

So the biggest opportunities are really hiring from other practices. Right? Maybe maybe a practice, was independent and had some associates, and then it sold. And the new corporate entities maybe not doing great.

And pretty soon, the actually the, the former owner's contract is going to come up and they're going to leave the practice because they're not going to stay there as an employee.

And then those now that who's running the practice because so many of those acquisition groups, they just thought that they were gonna buy a practice and then recap or or sell it, you know, once they put a group together. And now they're stuck holding them because the private equity markets went like, I don't know about putting more money into veterinary, you know, right now. And so, once those those owners leave, those associates are going to be left kind of on their own. The practice is going to start failing.

And that's where it's going to be a good job opportunity to scoop up, you know, associates from. But still, it's just this tightening of labor market. But what I think is going to change it is so the schools have increased class size, and there's, like, more than ten. Yesterday, I was actually doing an interview with the doctor.

He and he he post me on he goes, what ten schools are coming up? So I looked it up, and we actually found a dozen different schools that are have been approved that are gonna be coming online. And so the same thing happened in in pharmaceutical twenty five years ago, and it took a few years for for all of the pharmacists to flood the market. But once they did, now all of a sudden, it was there was a glut of pharmacists.

And so if if things trend and kind of if that comes through and all these schools start kicking out more doctors, it's just going to be so easy for for veterinary practices to hire doctors because there's going to be enough of them that I don't think any relief vets will be able to get a know who's gonna pay more for a relief vet when you can actually get somebody dedicated to practice. So I think it's just a supply demand shift that's gonna happen over the next few years. For right now, it's very real.

Yeah. I agree. I I think that's a great point. The the only space I could see it staying is in, like, ER type stuff, because a lot of people and that's that's kinda what I meant, like, ER type stuff is because it's hard to staff.

So my clinic used to be open twenty four seven, three sixty five. We did ER. We did our own emergencies. Emergencies.

We did everything.

And I was replacing doctors every year, like, two to three doctors every year because the burnout was real. Right? Like, I can remember one time I came in on Saturday morning at eight AM. I worked my whole Saturday shift till noon, and then I was on call till Monday morning.

Well, I had so many calls. I never even went home. I barely had time to go get a snack, and I went home Monday night at six PM when my final shift on Monday was done. So I was here for, like, literally three straight days with no sleep in between.

And when you're doing ER, I think that is gonna still be a little bit difficult to staff, so there may be some, relief platforms that will do ER. And then what I see now is that's kinda trending that way. Most of the most of the relief platforms are are posting ER shifts, like, especially, like, eight PM to eight AM shift, overnight shift.

That makes a lot of sense. And and that stuff makes the the the value equation, the cost equation is a little bit more favorable than to that as well because you make a little bit more money in the emergency emergent situations. They're a little more expensive, and so there's the money there to pay those a little bit higher rates to the practitioner. Yeah?

Yeah. Absolutely. I I think you're right, though. I think, you know, I know I know there's been several schools that I can think of.

I'm from Arizona originally. University of Arizona is a brand new school coming on. They'll graduate their first class soon. I actually partner with them, and I have students out here as part of their rotations.

But, but there's gonna we're gonna have a plethora of maybe not a plethora, but it'll reset itself back to a more normal healthy rate of what we're doing.

Yeah. Yeah. I think so. I think so. But we got a few years. I mean, it's not quite there yet.

So, you know, I mean, that's gonna also once if it does play out that way yeah. The bad thing for for the pharmaceutical industry because, I mean, again, twenty five years ago is to say they were they were students were coming out of school getting hundred, hundred and fifty thousand dollar bonuses from corporate, and they were bleeding the independence dry, and it was a whole, you know, thing. Then the schools all came online and increased their class sizes and whatnot. Today, pharmacists are effectively making fifty percent of what they were were earning twenty five years ago if you adjust for inflation, just because supply and demand.

Right? And so if if the schools do all come through and if it looks like that's gonna happen, I think that that private equity and and the larger, you know, corporate groups are gonna watch that. And if they believe that, like, hey. In two, three, four years, we're gonna start seeing this big drop in salaries for veterinarians because of supply demand change, you're gonna see you're gonna see them come back and start pushing to acquire practices again in a major major way before the that, you know, that that shift in in price happens.

Because that if then they can just kind of buy practices that are not as profitable, and a few years later, they were they're more profitable. You know?

And they can recapitalize on them super quick. Right? And that's, sir, that's private equity's goal, right, to recap in three to five years every time.

Exactly. Exactly. So the other the last thing you mentioned in here, I think, is so important is, you you said fairly succinctly what a lot of practice owners fear about insurance.

Right, coming on. That it's the big fear behind insurance is nobody wants to see veterinary go the way that human medicine has where insurance companies largely are dictating what care we can get because the doctor can say, hey. This you probably need this, you know, treatment or this procedure. But if the insurance company is not going to pay for it, like, you know, who can who can afford it on their own? So, but right now, but the other two things that we're dealing with, we've got, you know, everybody's feeling like the cost all these drivers of cost, and and you got into this question posting, like, the relief that's driving up costs and all these other things are also driving up costs and we have to we have to pass that cost along.

And there's a lot of thought throughout the industry about where are we on the price elasticity curve? Like, are we at the top of that? Are consumers not able and not willing? You you talked about earlier.

People feel like they're pulling back in wellness care as an affordability thing. So if we can't go too much more there, but costs need to, you can't just squeeze your margins forever. You you need to handle those off. Right now, we only have, like, three percent of the of pet owners have insurance on their pets.

I can tell you I'm so glad that I do because my hundred and twenty pound, silver lab last year jumped off a six foot wall, bilateral cruciate tears. You know. And Fetch Insurance, I'm a put a plug for them because they were fantastic. They paid for the one knee that had to happen last year, and this year, they're gonna pay for the other.

So I'm way up on that policy. That was a good gamble. But, bad for my dog, but he's doing well. He's he's actually doing well.

He did a great job.

You know, so they kinda like it's kinda good. We we I think we should get more people doing insurance, and then the it's more affordable for the care.

And I I don't know if it's ever really it's not gonna hit this level where we're at in human medicine where most people have insurance, and so they have the power, You know?

But Yeah.

There's two things there's two things I think can happen. One is, like, we go along the lines more like dentistry right now where most people have it. It pays for a certain percentage of it, and the dentist really gonna dictate what care is made. That's kind of my hope as it goes along those lines.

I think insurance in general is great. Right? We all have we all have it for certain things for ourselves. We have auto insurance.

We have homeowners insurance. We have health insurance. We have dental insurance.

We have like me, I have life insurance multiple times over because no if people wanna give me money, people also want their money back if I'm I'm out of here. So so my and I and the other thing that we have is right now in veterinary medicine, the second thing is, we don't have standardized billing yet.

Just like human medicine has all standardized billing, and that's gonna push you know, our practice is gonna wanna get in line with standardized billing because it in order for insurances to dictate, every practice in America would have to bill the exact same way for certain procedures. Right? TPLO, like your dog probably got, has to be x y z dollars across the country and maybe adjusted for different areas of living depending on, like, you know, home prices or whatever they decide. You know? But so I hope that it doesn't go that route. That's our biggest fear, actually. I mean, that's my biggest fear is it goes that route.

I hope that it won't go that route, and I really hope it it kinda bucks the trend of more dentistry type stuff. And, yeah, because it's proven. Right? Like, I literally had a a a a business, do a Zoom lunch and learn with my clinic yesterday about pet insurance, and it's called Policy.

You've probably heard of them. They're more like they're more like a brokerage firm, for insurance, and they do comparison type stuff because it's coming, and more people need it, and more pets need it. Right? Like, I would advocate for insurance, especially because you're I mean, let's say, for instance, you didn't have six thousand dollars or whatever it cost to do a TPLO.

Your dog would be painful for a long time in both knees if you didn't have go get that surgery. And some people might not have that to be able to do that. And so I would advocate for the pet that if someone had insurance and they had to pay five hundred dollars, that's a lot easier to come up with as a co pay than four to eight thousand dollars, whatever a TPLO surgery cost depending on where you live. So I'm not against insurance.

My that's my biggest fear is that insurance turns into that, and I hope that veterinary medicine is smart enough to steer away from that and go the route more of, like, dentistry or auto insurance, if you will, type of insurance. Because I think it's a good thing, and it's proven. Right? Like, people have insurance, they're going to spend more in their practice because they think that they're gonna get their money back and not have to come out of pocket for it. So they pay it all the time versus, like, having to come up with, you know, my dog ate a sock. It needs a foreign body surgery today. I don't have the three thousand dollars to do that, but I have five hundred, and my insurance will cover it type of thing.

Right. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. I agree.

So that's kind of my stance on that. I I know it sounds like I'm kind of against insurance. I'm actually not.

I think I think No.

Actually, I think that you really I think you really clarified. I I think that, the way you, elucidated the dental model as, as a good North Star for it to move towards hopefully, as opposed to human insurance. I think that that really makes a lot of sense as well stated.

Let's go back to, the treadle relief workers and the loss of client relationship.

That's that is such an important part of that dynamic. And I think that that not everybody thinks about that aspect of it if they're bringing on somebody who's a relief, you know, vet or whatever. But man, it's there was some of the best comments that came through this study that I thought were the most insightful and things that people really need to latch onto. It's like build up your client relationship, do everything you can to make stronger client relationships as the best opportunity you have. You know? So talk about that for a second. I love your insight.

And and the reason I said that is because I feel like client relationship are huge. Right? These client relationships are what drive our business. Like I said earlier, we are in the service industry. Whether we like it or not, we are in a service industry, and we are here to serve the community and their pets.

And, you know, I have someone, a couple clients of mine that will drive fifty miles to see me because they like to see me because that's what they are. They're gonna pass five to ten clinics on their way here, and that's my and that's my goal is to to give the client the best experience. And as we you know? And I'm I'm hopeful that that's a lot of veterinarians.

And, you know, the older generation, for sure, that was their their model. They were really big on clients first, clients first, clients first. And I feel like there's a lot of practices out there that are still that way. But if you have someone, a new doctor, a new face, every single time someone comes to the clinic, you know, they're like, okay.

Well, maybe I don't wanna make that drive because if I'm gonna see someone new, I can just see a a doctor five minutes away versus a doctor fifty minutes away type of thing. So client relationship, I think, is at utmost, if not number one, number two, priority. Our team health and wellness and stuff, you take care of your team, they'll take care of your clients, and in turn, you'll have two very happy people, and that's what's gonna drive your business to do better. But I think the client relationship is huge, and that's one thing that I think that we can offer that a lot of these relief areas can't is that client relationship type of thing.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

The more you talk, the more obvious it is why, you know, your practice is so successful.

The last thing though, the last thing here on the survey, the last question was, what are the opportunities that you see facing veterinary practice ownership? And you were among the fourteen percent of practice owners who responded basically saying your what your response was, I wish I knew. Not really seeing opportunities out there and all of that. But we you know, do you still feel that way?

I, you know, I don't know all the opportunities that are out there in veterinary medicine. And as we know, like, there's so many different tracks the way people can go, once they graduate from veterinary school.

For someone who is motivated and someone who wants to succeed, there I feel like there's still going to be lots of opportunity for them. We talked earlier before we were actually on the air about, practice ownership and the opportunities to purchase practices.

Right now is a great time. Right? Because, like like we discussed, corporate's down. They're not paying exuberance amounts. They're not playing fifteen to twenty multiples of EBITDA to purchase practices right now. And those who want to succeed and challenge themselves, practice ownership is an amazing route to go. And right now is a good time because there's a lot of people that are retirement age that that could use a good someone to come and take over their practice.

For me, I know I would love to purchase a couple other practices that I can have in the area or even somewhere else to build my portfolio. And not only that, but also, like, you know, my culture and my the way I want to do business and stuff can be transmitted to more people in this area, around here. And so that's what I'm trying to do right now is purchase other practices in the area. You know, just build more things. There's there's tons of opportunity. And if you're willing to take some chances, I think there's still some huge opportunities in veterinary medicine. Even if you just want to be a surgeon or you just want to see wellness, those opportunities are out there as well.

I just people just need to learn how to take them and and go do it.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I think that's the biggest opportunity. I think I think right now for the next two to three years is gonna be the greatest opportunity in our lifetimes for a well run independent practice to grow and strengthen that practice and and potentially to acquire new practices, you know, as as the the owners who sold their practices, their contracts come up and they go leaving.

I think it's gonna be a great time because a lot of those a lot of those acquisition groups, the the private equity that backed them is like, we're not gonna give you more money, and the the time is ticking. We actually have to get give investors their money back, and we need to get out of this. And so, I think there's gonna be some fire sales going on, actually.

It's gonna be a really interesting dynamic for for a little bit. And then and then we'll see. Maybe maybe things will play out in those, the consolidators will come back because there will be a wash in new grads and all that sort of stuff.

But I think it's gonna be a really, really interesting time for the next few years.

Yeah. And I'm I'm hopeful for the next two years as well. Right? And I and that's something I wish that veterinary schools did a better job of of teaching new grads that there's opportunities in business and that it's not as scary to be a business owner.

It's a risk. Absolutely, it's a risk, but it's not as scary, and the rewards are some of the most amazing rewards you can get in being a practice owner is are out there, not just financially, but, like, you know, how I feel about myself, my pride, the things I do for myself. It's it's there, and I feel it. And I give opportunities to to team members.

Right? Like, team members can grow, and you can help that, and that's why I want multiple practices. Because if I have one practice, you know, I only have certain amount of manager roles that I can do. But if I have four, I have multiple manager roles, and I can promote these amazing team members that I have as well and bring them up with me.

And so I wish that there was you know, Washington State has a good business guy up there. Georgia has a good business guy out there.

Rick DeBose at Washington State and, Jeff Sanford over at University of Georgia. I work with them. In fact, I do, like, I go to some of their classes, and I have students come here from those schools just so they can learn to be business owners as well. And so I think if more schools have opportunities like that, it could help, you know, promote the private practice and the growth of private practice.

And this for these students to learn how to do marketing and learn how to partner with people. I mean, I use GeniusVets. I do. GeniusVets is my marketing platform, and they do my website.

They do my, social media platforms. They do my digital marketing. Like, that's what GeniusVets does for me, and it's great. And, you know, finding these relationships that can help you grow, yes, it costs money, but it's great because now I don't have to worry about that on the back end and just helping people understand that these things are what's going to happen.

And if you do it, you can have a very fulfilling career.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for that. And, yeah, it's a pleasure working with you guys.

And, yes, thank you so much for for taking some of your time, Sharon. You're obviously doing a lot to to share the wisdom that you're picking up throughout your journey as a practice owner, supporting colleges and and supporting those work programs and mentorship and all that. So, you know, really great stuff. What we need is a lot more people like you in your, you know, following in your footsteps and and the same thing, dedication to the industry, to the profession, lifting it up.

And if we can get that, you know, rising tide lifts all boats. And it really seems to be, you know, your philosophy.

Great job.

Awesome. Thanks for having me, David. It's been a pleasure. I know it's just my goal. Like, someone took me under their wing to show me, and I was I was I was a promise I made to myself back in school that I would repay that a hundredfold if I could.

Yeah. Well, you're doing it, man. You're doing it. Great job. Appreciate you, doctor Fish. It's, it's good stuff.

And, hey. Listen. Everybody who who's here, we've grab this download. Grab the trans threats opportunities download.

There's links to it. Check it out. Let us know. We're gonna be putting out, if you have anything that you would have liked to have added.

If you have any questions or comments, you'd like to be on the show, reach on out to us. We're here at GeniusFest to support you. And stay tuned because we got something we got another really good thing coming up.

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